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Transcript: loss of
faith
June 9,
2002
George
Pell
RICHARD CARLETON: There's no way you could have missed the
reaction to last week's story on paedophilia in the Catholic
Church. Last week we broadcast the allegation that Archbishop
George Pell offered a bribe to keep quiet an episode of child
sexual abuse. The archbishop denied that allegation. Tonight
you'll hear from a man who was a priest for 24 years and says
it beggars belief that Archbishop Pell was unaware of the
child sexual abuse occurring within his church. And tonight we
accuse the church of paying hush money, this time to a victim
repeatedly raped by a Christian Brother. Just last year the
victim was paid $50,000 to shut up about the crime.
STORY RICHARD CARLETON: Geoff Fitzpatrick has had a
troubled life. A rebellious child with alcoholic parents, he
was made a ward of the State and sent to a Catholic orphanage
when he was 11. Those years changed him forever.
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: I was there from '69 to '71.
RICHARD CARLETON: Okay. In that time, how frequently were
you sexually abused?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: I was sexually abused, raped, 14 times.
I was physically abused on more than 30 or 40 occasions.
RICHARD CARLETON: Who performed the rapes upon you?
GEOFF
FITZPATRICK: Brother William Houston.
RICHARD CARLETON: How long had you been at the orphanage
the first time Brother Houston raped you?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: Three days.
RICHARD CARLETON: How many days?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: Three.
RICHARD CARLETON: Did you try to tell anybody about those
rapes and what happened?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: Yes, I did and I was told I was a liar.
I was told I was a troublemaker and I was made to put my hand
on his desk with me hands spread out like that, palms down,
and I was given 10 beltings of the strap.
RICHARD CARLETON: It wasn't until 1996 that Geoff finally
came forward and reported the abuse to the police. The brother
was charged but the charges were later dropped.
Notwithstanding the charges not going ahead, what happened in
April last year, just 14 months ago?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: My lawyers from Mordialloc got in touch
with the Towards Healing Program and arranged a mediation
between the church and myself and as result of that mediation
they offered me $50,000 to sign a document to not go ahead
with it and not say anything more about this, what happened to
me as a child.
RICHARD CARLETON: Did they walk in and say, "Here's
$50,000" or what?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: Not straight off, no. They offered me
$20,000 and I laughed at 'em, literally.
RICHARD CARLETON: You've got a copy of the agreement there.
Would you read clause "G" to me please?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: "The church do not admit any wrongdoing
has been committed".
RICHARD CARLETON: So they didn't admit but they paid you
$50,000?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: That's right.
RICHARD CARLETON: Have you got the $50,000?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: Yes.
RICHARD CARLETON: It has been paid to you?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: Yes.
RICHARD CARLETON: I will read to you clause "K": "It is a
condition of the settlement that you..."
As a condition of the payment, the church required Geoff to
swear that he would … That is, they gagged him.
So you realise you're breaking that agreement by talking to
me now?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: Well, I'll give the church 40 cents and
they can ring somebody who cares. Clearly, I don't care. I
mean, clearly I just want to show what cover-up the church are
doing. I mean, it's not only myself that's suffering ...
RICHARD CARLETON: Many victims like Geoff have come forward
since last Sunday when allegations were made on this program
against Sydney Archbishop, George Pell. Now, did you tell him
specifically?
DAVID RISDALE: I told him specifically I'd been assaulted
by my uncle, Gerard Ridsdale. Very specifically.
RICHARD CARLETON: Last week David Ridsdale alleged that, in
February 1993, he went to Pell, then a Melbourne Bishop, to
tell him of the abuse he had suffered at the hands of his
uncle, Father Gerard Ridsdale.
DAVID RISDALE: I said, "Look, this assault has happened to
me. I'm really beside myself. I need some assistance, some
help". And his response to that was, "I want to know what it
will take to keep you quiet".
RICHARD CARLETON: Now, are there any doubts in your mind
that those were the specific words that he used?
DAVID RISDALE: "I want to know what it will take to keep
you quiet". None at all. Not those last two phrases, no.
Because it triggered ...
RICHARD CARLETON: Ten years after the event, how can [you]
be so sure?
DAVID RISDALE: Because of what it triggered in me. It
changed everything.
RICHARD CARLETON: Archbishop Pell denied these allegations.
GEORGE PELL: I am quite prepared to concede that I would
have been rattled, that I was distressed. I have great
sympathy towards him and his family and what happened to him
was dreadful, but his recollection of some of the things he
says are totally wrong.
RICHARD CARLETON: In this statutory declaration Dr Pell
claimed it was implausible that he would try to silence David
because …
But that is not how the investigating police remember it.
So when did this matter come into the public domain, from your
knowledge?
RAY STEIGER: Well, my interpretation of the two words
"public domain" would suggest that it would have been in the
media and first time that it was in the media was on the
fifth.
RICHARD CARLETON: Of February 1993?
RAY STEIGER: Correct, the day after Gerard Ridsdale was
first interviewed and charged by the police.
RICHARD CARLETON: And after the time that David Ridsdale
claims he, Pell, said to him: "What will it take to keep you
quiet?"
RAY STEIGER: Correct.
RICHARD CARLETON: Ray Steiger and Lisa McKenzie are the
police officers who headed the first investigation into Father
Gerard Ridsdale. During their investigation, they sought the
co-operation of the Catholic Church and it was not always
forthcoming. Such as on the day they had an appointment with
the Bishop of Ballarat, the man responsible for moving
Ridsdale from parish to parish.
RAY STEIGER: Our understanding was, when we drove from
Melbourne to Ballarat, was that we were to have a meeting with
Bishop Mulkearns.
RICHARD CARLETON: Do you know why he didn't show up?
RAY STEIGER: No.
RICHARD CARLETON: The bishop knew you were making inquiries
about Gerard Ridsdale?
RAY STEIGER: Yes.
LISA MCKENZIE: In fact, it was my recollection that he was
actually there but that he wasn't able to see us.
RICHARD CARLETON: What, he was too busy?
LISA MCKENZIE: Well ...
RICHARD CARLETON: What they received that day was a typed
list of the parishes Ridsdale had been moved to and from. This
is a list of where Gerard Ridsdale was appointed?
RAY STEIGER: Yes.
RICHARD CARLETON: Apart from that were they otherwise
co-operative or not?
RAY STEIGER: Father Murphy was the gentleman that we saw
and he answered the questions that we asked but certainly, um
...
LISA MCKENZIE: … didn't provide any additional information.
RAY STEIGER: Additional assistance, no. They probably
co-operated to the extent that they had to.
RICHARD CARLETON: That's pretty damning, isn't it?
RAY STEIGER: Certainly with other investigations that we
were conducting at the time there were other organisations
that were somewhat more cooperative, wouldn't you say?
LISA MCKENZIE: That's right, yeah.
RICHARD CARLETON: In February '93, Lisa McKenzie and Ray
Steiger charged Gerard Ridsdale with indecently assaulting 11
boys. He got three months. Later, he was jailed for 15 years
for other abuses dating back to 1961. When Ridsdale was moved
from Ballarat North to Mildura and then from Mildura to Swan
Hill and Swan Hill to Warrnambool, Ballarat and Apollo Bay,
did anyone give you the reason why he was being moved from
place to place?
RAY STEIGER: No.
RICHARD CARLETON: Did you ask?
RAY STEIGER: Yes.
RICHARD CARLETON: What did they say?
RAY STEIGER: We inquired when we had that meeting but there
wasn't really any explanation given, as such. We were given
the list and basically not a lot of other additional
information.
RICHARD CARLETON: From your inquiries, he offended at most
of these places here?
RAY STEIGER: Certainly it unfolded that way, yes.
RICHARD CARLETON: So you were certainly of the impression
that he was moved on because the Catholic Church knew he was
offending?
RAY STEIGER: That certainly was the opinion that we were
getting. Wouldn't you agree with that?
LISA MCKENZIE: That's right, yes. He only stayed, like, a
short time in each town.
RICHARD CARLETON: In your experience, the church would move
the offender sideways as one approach and another approach,
may I suggest, was to cover it up?
PHIL O'DONNELL: I think that is a very fair analysis.
Certainly, it was, um, transfer was what happened and cover up
… I use the word that they had a strategy of denial and
rejection.
RICHARD CARLETON: For 24 years Phil O'Donnell was a Roman
Catholic priest in Victoria. His is an insider's view of the
church's inaction when faced with evidence of paedophiles
within their ranks.
PHIL O'DONNELL: It is horrifying to think of the number of
young boys and girls who have been subsequently abused because
the strategy of the church was to deny the reality. It was to
turn against the victim, it was to blame the victim, it was to
make those supporting the victim uncomfortable. All of that
stuff.
RICHARD CARLETON: O'Donnell first alerted the church
hierarchy about a particular abusing priest back in 1978.
PHIL O'DONNELL: I thought I had done the right thing by
alerting the authorities because in my naivety or innocence, I
would have thought by alerting the authorities that action
would happen.
RICHARD CARLETON: So what happened, he was moved sideways
and that was his punishment? He got a different parish?
PHIL O'DONNELL: Indeed.
RICHARD CARLETON: And went on doing the same thing
presumably?
PHIL O'DONNELL: Mmm, convicted later.
RICHARD CARLETON: Why didn't you do something about it
then?
PHIL O'DONNELL: I kept doing things. I've got on record
numerous instances where I went to the proper authorities,
wrote to them, spoke with them and kept alerting them to the
fact of how do they allow a priest with a known problem of
sexual abuse against children, staying in active ministry. It
is not just one bishop who might not have handled something
well. I have to say, I think, it was collective responsibility
which I say I'm part of the problem, quite clearly, I should
have done, should have gone to the police, there's no doubt
about that, but there's ...
RICHARD CARLETON: You should have gone to the police but
you went to the bishop.
PHIL O'DONNELL: Yes, exactly. But there was a collective
responsibility, I think at this stage, where the strategy just
seemed to be just put it off and see if it goes away, and, of
course, it just got put off and put off and more kids got
abused and when it got to about the early to mid-'90s and the
media exposure was horrific, no longer could the issue be
covered up and then, I believe, lots of very good things have
happened and I just think now if someone was abusing a kid in
a position of trust, as a priest is, they wouldn't be doing it
for long.
GEORGE PELL: It is a matter of regret that the Catholic
Church has taken some time to come to grips with this sexual
assault issue adequately.
RICHARD CARLETON: In 1996, George Pell, then Archbishop of
Melbourne, established a panel to deal with sex abuse cases.
The panel caps payouts at $50,000.
GARY: It would appear to be a maximum based on protection
of the church rather than protection of the victim.
RICHARD CARLETON: Gary and Elizabeth's two daughters were
sexually abused by their local priest. They applied for
compensation and have been offered $50,000 on account of their
first daughter. They consider this money was offered to buy
their silence. Pell's lawyers say the offer is a realistic
alternative to litigation that will otherwise be strenuously
defended.
Fifty thousand dollars for a destroyed daughter's life?
GARY: Absolutely.
RICHARD CARLETON: Was that reasonable?
GARY: I don't believe so. I feel as though we've been told
to take the $50,000 and shut up.
RICHARD CARLETON: When victims still come forward today the
church is still applying the stratagem of running them through
the courts, making it as difficult as possible.
PHIL O'DONNELL: Yeah. When they try and, in a sense, take
on the church an individual's financial and legal resources
compared to the might of the Catholic Church finances and
legal, and our experience has been that so many victims have
tried to run the litigation, the civil matters, and have just
been worn down under the weight of financial, legal might of
the opposing party. David and Goliath. That's where again
there's so much hurt with these people.
RICHARD CARLETON: At the time Gary and Elizabeth's
daughters were being abused, the auxiliary bishop was George
Pell.
GARY: He was a very senior part of the hierarchy of the
Catholic Church. He was the bishop for the area in which we
reside. He should have known.
RICHARD CARLETON: What's your opinion as to whether the
likes of Archbishop Pell would have known this sort of thing
was going on?
PHIL O'DONNELL: I think anyone in authority would have
known it was going on. Anyone who was a bishop in the Catholic
Church through the '70s and '80s and '90s had to be aware of
the volume of victims who were coming forward telling their
stories. It beggars belief that anybody in a position of
authority through the '70s, '80s and '90s was not aware of
this as a very major crisis in the Catholic Church.
RICHARD CARLETON: The family of the some of the victims
have said to me if the likes of Pell had done his job their
daughters would not have been abused.
PHIL O'DONNELL: Mmm. If Pell and let's name … how many
others do you want to name?
RICHARD CARLETON: Two days ago I took Geoff Fitzpatrick to
the Christian Brothers' establishment where the Christian
Brother he alleges had repeatedly raped him still serves.
Geoff wanted me to ask the brother for an apology.
Brother Houston, how do you do? Richard Carleton is my name
from 60 Minutes television, sir.
BROTHER WILLIAM HOUSTON: Excuse me.
RICHARD CARLETON: Could you tell me, do you feel you have
an apology to offer to this gentleman?
BROTHER WILLIAM HOUSTON: Excuse me!
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: Remember St Augustine's, 1969? Do you
remember? I do!
RICHARD CARLETON: No, No. Please, please. Brother, thank
you.
BROTHER WILLIAM HOUSTON: Please leave the premises as you
have been requested.
RICHARD CARLETON: What do you want from the church now?
GEOFF FITZPATRICK: I want them to admit their fault. I want
them to weed out the perpetrators that did these things to me.
I want them to weed out the ones that are doing it to other
victims, as we speak.
PHIL O'DONNELL: God only knows how many kids have been
violated, how many kids have been abused, but in fairness to
victims, I think it's time that people on the inside say their
stories are true. They should be listened to. They should be
believed. They shouldn't have to fight and continuously fight
to prove that these cases going over such a long period of
time, are true.
RICHARD CARLETON: Dr Pell declined an invitation to
reappear on the program tonight. Christian Brothers leader
Brother Peter Dowling also declined to be
interviewed.
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GEOFF
FITZPATRICK: Brother William Houston.
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Index